Comments were left under Red Clay Now posted titled: According to Ravitch, American Schools Have Lost Their Way, What Do You Think, Have We?
Anonymous posted: "You can't cure schools that teach high poverty kids on a shoestring budget."
An anonymous answered: "Bull!!! You don't need a lot of money to do a good job, just concentrated effort. The successful charter schools sure don't have much money, but they succeed."
Selock posted a response: "Which are the successful charters operating on a shoestring with truly high-need/high-risk students?"
Lets look at the following charters and their percentages of ELL students, Low Income students, and Spec Ed students:
Wilmington Charter - English Language Learners 0% - Low Income students 0% - Special Education 0%
Delaware Military Academy - English Language Learners 9% - Low Income Students 9.3% - Special Education 2%
Odyssey - English Language Learners 0% - Low Income 24.7% - Special Education 4%
Lets compare a few of our Red Clay Schools:
Mote Elementary School - English Language Learners 55.8% - Low Income Students - 81.1% - Special Education 7.5%
Baltz Elementary School - English Language Learners 33.32% - Low Income Students 72.5% - Special Education 7.5%
Marbrook Elementary School - English Language Learners 54.1% - Low Income Students 79.1% -Special Education 7.5%
What are your thoughts? Does money matter? Are charters succeeding on a shoestring budget? Or are they succeeding because they do not have high needs/high risk students? Share your thoughts.
All the above schools either met AYP or were above target for last school year.
Delmar DustPan: A Day In The Garden
2 weeks ago
18 comments:
They cherry pick the successful kids from successful families. Leaving traditional schools with an abnormally high rate of underperforming kids.
We have perfect examples as Kim points out right in red clay. Look at the test scores of the now low performing schools and then look at them before their magnets opened up. its striking. And to top it off these schools who are left w/the lower performing students are not funded very well, they are an after thought with the board and super, the 'white flight' then gets faster and faster and you are stuck with the disasters we have.
In my opinion, the answer is simple. Go back to neighborhood schools, stop the absurb testing that the DOE is obsessed with, stop giving people choices of schools, take back control of discipline problems starting with the principals and staff, stop trying to offer in certain schools programs that cost so much money, hold teachers responsible only if the proof is there that warrants it, and stop the politics in teaching children. All schools need to have all different types of students from the rich and poor, race, religious beliefs, etc. Years ago this worked so well until they started busing. That was the beginning of the end for schools. Go back to basics. If parents don't like this for their kids attending public schools, then by all means they can choose to send their kids to private or parochial schools. In my belief, most teachers are doing the very best they can with their committment and dedication. Stop all this talk, wasting money, and get back to what worked in the past. You can never please everyone so the debates about this could go on forever. DOE, teachers, faculty, and school boards have got to get together and get this straightened out. This is not an impossible task. Parents please think outside the box for once. Your child is not going to get everything you think they should get in public schools. However, the one thing they would get is learning discipline, getting along with all types of children, a decent education, and learning that life isn't fair. Children learn from their parents. So stop with all this nonsense of trying to get from schools things that are impossible.
Regular schools can be succesful if the progam is structured correctly. It does not matter how rich or poor the students are. Look at the schools in Newark. NJ and the Bronx that are all over the news. These schools are running the KIPP Program. It's a rigourous program that involves 10 hour school days, school in the summer and teaches kids school is serious. Now I am not saying we need to implement all of the policies (summer school, 10 hour days, etc) however, maybe we can learn from them in regards to many of the other things they have in place.
For example, parents, teachers and students are required to sign a contract. This contract is NOT just a piece of paper that is signed by all parties but implments accoutability from all. Parents are required to check homework, teachers are required be available, etc. There are signs posted on the walls of these schools that read "no excuses". Kids are not rewarded for doing what they are supposed to - like bringing a pen and paper to school. The KIPP program puts education back in the hands of the educators and does not let kids get away with stupid things. I think there is a lot we can learn from intensive programs like this that are so succesful! This is proof to me that if education is taken seriously it can be succesful regardless of income level.
money matters in this sense. If you think of a student in a medical sense you get this:
a really sick patient needs more intense care (ICU)- in that unit the cost of care goes way up, the amount of attention he gets goes way up, he has the best trained doctors and nurses and the nurses have a 'case load' that is small in numbers, he has the best technology money can buy etc.
a student that comes to school unprepared to learn, doesn't have support with homework, is in a violent or negligent home situation needs go up in a very similar way that a medical patients needs go up.
a doctor that treats common colds never loses a patient... a charter school that only treats well prepared students never loses a student.
Going back to neighborhood schools sounds great on the surface, but in the Red Clay school district, there is currently only one secondary school left in the city (AI Middle). Many families of children who reside in the city of Wilmington are also upset that their children are bused out to the suburbs and cannot attend schools close to where they live. Low income parents are far more likely not to have transportation to be involved in their child's suburban school activities, Parental involvement is vital to kids'success in school. To really have successful neighborhood schools supported by the families who live in the surrounding neighborhoods, Red Clay will have to redraw attendance zones (something they have avoided to date) and actually construct or purchase property for middle and high schools in the city, and also the suburbs where population has grown explosively over the last 20 years. It seems unlikely that the millions of dollars necessary to accomplish this would ever be approved by taxpayers in this down economy. Another huge negative force within Red Clay - approx. 40% of students attend private schools(much higher than any other school district in the state). That tradition, even more so than the relatively small numbers at Charters/Magnets, have helped concentrate high numbers of low-income students at our traditional schools. I don't even know where to begin to tackle that problem. I moved to Delaware from another state and never experienced anything like it before. I am still shocked at the sheer number of private schools in the local area, and the mind-set of the parents who bad mouth our public schools and go private in the first place.
The question is valid. The comparison is not. Two of the three charter schools listed are high schools while the traditional schools listed are elementary schools. That is not an apples to apples comparison.
Also, the three traditional schools listed do not have have a high percentage of ELL students exclusively because of white flight to charters, private schools or other choice schools. Yes, it is a factor. But these three schools also have a lot of ELL students because 1) it reflects the population of nearby neighborhoods and 2) the Red Clay School District set it up that way with an ELL feeder pattern to these three school.
Maybe if Red Clay did not funnel most of the Spanish-speaking ELL students into these three schools, there would be a more equal balance of students across the spectrum of income, English-speaking ability, etc., and then that would in turn cut down on the flight of families with children who do not fall into these categories.
At the same time, I can see an educational benefit to creating these ELL feeder schools. They may be better equipped to teach these students when there is a large enough concentration to create a class that can cater to their unique needs. But if the district takes this route, it needs to do a better job assuring parents whose children do not need these special services that their children's educational needs will be met equally as well. For instance, both Baltz and Mote gave up their TAG programs in recent years to use their educational units for other purposes. Understandable for the overall population, but what kind of message does that send to high-achieving students?
Do we actually know how many students at Odyssey would otherwise go to the three schools you list? For all we know, Odyssey's students would otherwise go to Brandywine Springs but their parents want them to have a Greek-language component to their education. I don't know that for sure, but it just seems we should be working with facts, not supposition.
I also don't think it is fair to say Odyssey cherry picks. They have no testing for admission whatsoever. Admission is based solely on a lottery, and even now that lottery gives preference to Red Clay students. Anyone can submit an application.
A better question might be why are Marbrook and Mote performing so solidly in light of their challenges and why is Baltz struggling? Their populations are virtually the same.
I think money matters to a certain extent.
Bu I also think this is a little closer to an apples to apples comparison to your three traditional schools
Kuumba Academy Charter School – English-Language Learners 0.4% -- Low Income Students 71.1% -- Special Ed 5.5%
Family Foundations Academy – English-Language Learners 0.7% -- Low Income 47.3% -- Special Ed 6.6%
These two charter school also met AYP last year.
very low special ed numbers though!
"these schools who are left w/the lower performing students are not funded very well, they are an after thought with the board and super,"
BALONEY -- prove it!
Anonymous 9:26, the reason that there are so many private schools in Delaware goes back a long time. You see Delawares property tax (school tax) is very low (contrary to what all these bloggers say)and its been that way on purpose. If you were paying $5K or more in property tax the way most of our neighbors do you couldn't afford a private school. So the privates are 'supported' by the fact that families have a little more disposable income to pay for them.
part 2 is that court ordered busing sent many parents looking for private schools: after 1980 DOZENS OF PRIVATES OPENED and a little known fact st. marks was ready to close because of poor enrollment, then of course the famous court order.
"there is currently only one secondary school left in the city ( A.I. Middle)."
Please get your facts straight -- A.I. Middle is NOT in the city.
anony 7:41AM it isn't just white flight anymore...
My middleclass AA friends are sending their kids to CSW and private schools. And many have moved out of Wilmington.
Anyone with the means isn't willing to keep their kids in an environment where they are running with the lowest-common-denominator and that includes --typically-- the teachers.
I spoke with the Delaware State Teacher's Union head on the John Watson show last week and asked him if it wasn't true that Delaware teachers have a contracted ability to transfer out of low-performing schools. Such a 'teacher choice/teacher flight system isn't surprising since the NCLB punishes the teacher...
The person said that it isn't completely based on seniority but that yes, the transfer system amounts to talented and experienced teachers leaving the problem areas.
Good teacher leave problem schools just when keeping them in these schools is the solution to improving children's chances to succeed. SICK! There should be less pressure on teachers and more incentives for them.
To anonymous at 11:22 AM. Thanks for setting me straight on the location AI Middle(just outside city limits). So instead of having only one secondary school in the city of Wilmington, Red Clay actually has zero, even though it serves many city students. It seems that "neighborhood" school(for middle and high school) is a total misnomer. Do people who speak of forcing kids back to their "neighborhood" schools in Red Clay really mean "feeder pattern/attendance zone" schools? Or is there a genuine desire to allow middle and high school students the opportunity to actually attend a school near their home/neighborhood? That would take some serious overhauling - construction/purchase of additional buildings and perhaps consolidation of districts or even the creation of a city district.
anony 8:20
All schools need to have all different types of students from the rich and poor, race, religious beliefs, etc.
*
I went to Brandywine Hundred schools as did all of my siblings in the sixties and seventies. We had mostly middleclass with a sprinkling of poor kids. There was a black kid in Springer JHS the years I attended and maybe two black kids in Brandywine HS (class of 1976). The jewish kids almost all lived off of Shipley Road beyond Veale. There were a smattering of Catholics, most came in after 8th grade.
In elementary, we were definately tracked. There were a few each of top level, middle and lower classes. And it continued up to high school where we had more choice of what classes we wanted. I am sure that it was easier for teachers to teach in that environment. Also, we were well-managed and spanking was allowed.
When I heard they were going to start busing, I had a pretty good idea that introducing city kids into the lily white suburbs --all in a bunch-- and visa versa, would spell trouble because the class differences would be such a shock.
Kids are cruel enough about economic disparity, not to mention all of the other ingrained, low-brow prejudices that come to mind.
When we were growing up, you'd think that you could spot the blue-collar kids from New Castle and Claymont a mile away because of their potty mouths with their NewPort Menthols hanging out of them. It is a lot easier to 'spot' and isolate the minorities.
Looking at the original post, you could make the same comparison using Cab, and probably Conrad if you factored out the ELL program, if it's still there.
If they really do start to limit choice to AI High School it will be intersting to see how their performance changes along with their demographics.
I just think it's clear, many charters and magnets cherry pick. They get better outcomes. When a charter does not cherry pick or targets a low performing group, like Moyer, well...not a pretty sight in the eyes of DOE.
This is obvious.
"Anyone with the means isn't willing to keep their kids in an environment where they are running with the lowest-common-denominator and that includes --typically-- the teachers."
Jeez, Nancy--could you be any more offensive about teachers? All of a sudden, you are an education expert. Heck, you apparently cannot even recall the name of the DSEA "man."
Great post, I am bummed I missed this discussion.
I am for a return to neighborhood schools, and the old "pie" feeder that made sure to generate a mix of socioeconomic types in the neighborhood schools.
The Wilmington parents who feel they "can't" send their kids to local schools are succumbing to fear-mongering and panic-stricken pack mentality. If all Wilmington parents sent their kids to city schools, they would be more diverse, and lack the concentration of poverty that results in the occasionally chaotic current environment you are afraid of. At some point, some of us are just going to have to make the move, and endure a little bit of growing pains in the schools to set them right for the longterm benefit of our communities' kids (and therefore, our own kids, too.)
Some school is going to have to figure out a way to start bringing city parents back to traditional city schools. Not a charter, like Odyssey. I wish Highlands would pilot a program. Like a reverse affirmative action program to get higher income/education-level parents back!
I think the Brandywine School District did a very clever thing by adding the International Baccalureate program to Harlan Elementary. If I lived in that district, that decision would definitely make me strongly considering sending my child to that school.
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