Comments on Red Clay Now: Choice, Charter, Magnet and Neighborhood Schools, ...

6:54pm I see your point! If it's just for fun a...

2010-03-11T19:52:36.611-05:00

6:54pm I see your point!

If it's just for fun and enrichment, then maybe that programming is better spread out to all the schools, the way it used to be.

Alternatively - if we're seriously tracking kids on a high school level and want to keep it that way, then there should be tracking opportunities for every single student, and no "general waste bin" type schools, at all.

Frederika said... "I don't think that attending or...

2010-03-11T18:54:04.240-05:00

Frederika said...
"I don't think that attending or planning to attend an arts college or have a career in the arts is a necessary prerequisite to entrance into CCSA. Jeez. Kids' ideas change from day to day. "

So why have a school of the arts and a schools of science at all? Particularly for middle school.

A prerequisite? No. An interest in pursuing an art...

2010-03-11T07:09:00.265-05:00

A prerequisite? No. An interest in pursuing an arts career might be something to consider, though, and an arts school should definitely, in my opinion, track students towards those colleges and careers. Otherwise it becomes, as someone put it in another thread, a "faux-arts" school.

I don't think that attending or planning to attend...

2010-03-10T18:51:42.156-05:00

I don't think that attending or planning to attend an arts college or have a career in the arts is a necessary prerequisite to entrance into CCSA. Jeez. Kids' ideas change from day to day. However, the kid should definitely have a real talent in art, music, dance, writing, film-making, etc. as well as a real drive to participate in, to perform, to produce art. This should be more than just an exploratory experience, IMHO. One's talent should be recognizable. And, the school should not just end up as a refuge for some from the real world of middle and high school. That defeats its purpose and diminishes its value and mission.

Selock hits the nail on the head. A school may not...

2010-03-10T18:41:28.766-05:00

Selock hits the nail on the head. A school may not get fixed if there is not a range of students with a range of abilities and backgrounds included in the student body. At the time, desegregation through court-ordered busing seemed divisive to many folks. Now, school choice may look and feel divisive to some. And, the course of integration of our students, our neighborhoods, and our future seems to have been set back decades.

When The Southern Poverty Law Center's "Teaching Tolerance" magazine has to promote an annual "Mix-it Up Day" just to get black and white kids to eat lunch together, then we have not come very far.

And the only way that will happen is to severely l...

2010-03-10T12:21:56.119-05:00

And the only way that will happen is to severely limit the ability of low-need students to force their way into any school they want. It's past time to seriously tighten the regulation of the choice/charter/magnet system. Shutting down choice at the overpopulated, low-poverty suburban schools was a great start.

" If Cab isn't intended to track kids into art/mus...

2010-03-10T09:04:01.405-05:00

" If Cab isn't intended to track kids into art/music/acting schools and/or professions, I don't really see the point."

I agree. But I think most of the parents who push for their kids to get in there are doing it because they do not like their feeder school. Let's face it, if the districts would support all schools the way they support charters and magnets, we would not be having this conversation.

@ 7:16 - I have to work March 17 in the evening, u...

2010-03-10T07:23:14.486-05:00

@ 7:16 - I have to work March 17 in the evening, unfortunately, but I'm trying to figure something out.

@ 6:34 - I would be interested to see what percentage of Cab kids go on to Art schools and/or careers in the arts. My son is interested (at this point, at least) in an art-based career, and while I certainly don't think not going to Cab is going to affect his ability to do that if he sticks with it, I'm sure he was never asked about his artistic goals. Maybe they ask at the high school level assessment.

I also wonder if these privately recommended art lessons teach to the rubric?

Anyway - I think to be serious, they do need to show that they turn out serious artists, or at least serious art students. I went through the first Art Majors program at AI High in the '80s, before there was a Cab - a very intensive program. IIRC by Senior year, we had two periods of studio time and one of Advanced Placement art class every day. It was maybe a half dozen students per grade (but there were other amazing artists there, pre-Choice, who were not in the program because they weren't on an art school track). That regular public school program turned out art students. I went to Tyler School of Art, myself. If Cab isn't intended to track kids into art/music/acting schools and/or professions, I don't really see the point.

Holly Q Attend the Board meetings and ask the qu...

2010-03-09T19:16:03.994-05:00

Holly Q Attend the Board meetings and ask the questions you want answers to.

What is wrong with making choice soley first come ...

2010-03-09T18:34:54.048-05:00

What is wrong with making choice soley first come first serve with a preference for kids in the district, including the "magnets"?

First you admit the kids in the attendance zone, then if there is room you admit the other district kids. If there is still room you admit out of district kids. And give every school an attendance zone. It's not impossible.

My niece went to Cab. Her parents wanted her to and they got art lessons. They knew other parents who did the same thing and recommended where to go for classes. She did the work herself, I think she ended up being quite good, but she did not have a burning desire to become an artist and she is not going to college for art.

There are some really talented kids at Cab and I am not disparaging any of the kids. But I think it's mostly high achieving students with families who are in the know or have connections. The district should not be creating what is in effect a private school. Same with Conrad.

And when are we ever going to collect some rent from CSW?

"I guess I just wish I could understand who wants ...

2010-03-09T18:21:55.630-05:00

"I guess I just wish I could understand who wants the resegregation and why. I don't really see any true benefits."

It's simple, and it's not resegregation. People want their children to go to safe schools that have a good education program. Frankly, EVERY school in Red Clay fits this description. The problem is the poor-mouthing parents of children in some of those schools cause a very negative reputation to be established for those schools. The reputation is unwarranted, but that's what people hear from people in the schools and that's what they believe.

The benefit of resegregating the schools is just a...

2010-03-09T18:12:48.484-05:00

The benefit of resegregating the schools is just as mentioned in this thread. One side of the tracks doesn't have to send their kids from the other side of the tracks. It has been a goal of redclay ever since the court order. They've done it well. There have been many innocent victims but they've accomplished their goals

Anonymous, I don't know if you're addressing me, b...

2010-03-09T17:17:58.608-05:00

Anonymous, I don't know if you're addressing me, but I completely agree with you...I think the test scores have probably stayed exactly consistent by demographic to what they always were, it's just that all the traditional low scorers are all concentrated into certain schools, as are all of the traditional high scorers.

And I don't think anything would change drastically in testing by integrating the groups except that some of the lower scores would probably come up.

I guess I just wish I could understand who wants the resegregation and why. I don't really see any true benefits.

The schools are UNDERPERFORMING BECAUSE ALL OF THE...

2010-03-09T16:59:24.468-05:00

The schools are UNDERPERFORMING BECAUSE ALL OF THE ACHIEVERS HAVE LEFT-- NOT VICE VERSA!
by your logic if for one year the dickinson busses went drove to AI and the AI busses drove to Dickinson then their test scores would be reversed.
And the reason charters, magnets and safe havens were created in the first place was to resegregate the schools-- its not rocket science

I mostly agree with the last Anonymous...I don't t...

2010-03-09T14:23:16.387-05:00

I mostly agree with the last Anonymous...I don't think it's unrealistic exactly, but I do think that as long as the "more caring" parents (with the ability to be heard) can freely Choice their kids around the system with no limitation, there will be no real impetus to fix the under-performing/socioeconomically-imbalanced schools. It's an awful Catch-22...

I wish everyone that wanted to get to the better s...

2010-03-09T14:13:36.550-05:00

I wish everyone that wanted to get to the better schools could. It's just not a realistic wish.

It would be a little more realistic of a wish if Red Clay students were not rejected out of hand in favor of out-of-district kids at the magnet schools. People can say those Red Clay kids didn't meet the standards, but until we are actually shown what the standards are and how meaningful the assessments are as opposed to other factors they're not talking about, it could be based on anything.

If there's no abuse of the admissions system going on, there should be no problem showing us the all of the details.

Unfortunately when you have underperforming school...

2010-03-09T13:50:07.227-05:00

Unfortunately when you have underperforming schools - people are going to do anything to get their kids to the better schools. Lets face it. Look at Red Clay middle schools - if you had a choice would you pick Stanton over Skyline, HB, Cab or Conrad. Not from what I hear. As for HS - I would try my hardest for Charter or AI over Mckean or Dickenson. I think if the district fixed the underpeforming schools, then choice would not matter. However, when there are significant differences, any parent with half a concern would try to choice into the better schools! So until the underpeforming schools are addressed, then parents are always going to want choice. I wish everyone that wanted to get to the better schools could. It's just not a realistic wish.

Maybe I should modify my very strident point - es...

2010-03-09T13:32:18.673-05:00

Maybe I should modify my very strident point - especially since Choice seems irreversible - to say I think the ABUSE of Choice should be curbed, WAY curbed. It has a place, but is being terribly abused. When I am not as angry as I was when I wrote that original comment - I also think magnets with a subject focus serve a purpose. But when you have schools that are as segregated as ours have become, to the point that they really aren't serving many students very well and certainly not the future of our communities very well - something is clearly wrong and must be stopped.

Choice & magnet/charters should serve true need and merit, not whims, connections & pushiness as they do now.

I went K-12 through Red Clay, '85-'97 (Lewis, HB, AI). The era of busing! Still, it was a very good education back then, very balanced...today, I do prefer the idea of neighborhood schools, not busing. I just wish it was working in the City. Most "public school" parents I know around my neighborhood are sending their kids off to the Brandywine School District or one or two charters. They are terrified of local schools based on baseless rumors and fears of children & parents who are at least 90% perfectly fine people as well - just disproportionately brown & poor, like the city we live in.

I can't say I really blame suburban parents, because I think this problem is worst in the City among "desirable" parents who should know better. Wouldn't suburban parents also love to send those kids overcrowding the "hot" schools back to the schools where they belong, and who sorely need them to create balance? ...those kids & their parents would make a huge difference in the "failing" schools.

It's a shame convincing parents the difference they are looking for in those schools is their own attendance. Sadly, I can't say I imagine this happening, but I do think policy should strongly encourage it.

And anyone who objects has many fine parochial and private schools to choose from.

This is just my opinion as a proud city public school parent (Highlands) who feels unregulated choice/charters are destroying what we once had, based on firsthand experience.

It's not an opinion I expect to be popular. *shrug*

I still agree with myself, but I think "Anonymous"...

2010-03-09T12:17:19.642-05:00

I still agree with myself, but I think "Anonymous" puts it much better. :)

selock and anonymous both sound like Jack and Gemm...

2010-03-09T09:49:10.285-05:00

selock and anonymous both sound like Jack and Gemma Buckley. They never liked choice, until their child wanted to choose a different high school, then it was ok, but only in that case -- after that, the Buckleys returned to their idea that kids should be told what school to go to, and they should't have any choice in the matter. What a lousy situation.

I agree that these magnet programs appear to be ca...

2010-03-09T09:28:13.492-05:00

I agree that these magnet programs appear to be catering to the elite and leaving a large segment of the public school student body behind. They've left my kid behind.

I don't want to play games. If I scream and shout and get what I want, it doesn't help the district or make it less biased.

There should be no secretive admissions processes, no hidden rubrics. They're public schools - make that information public, and put Red Clay students first at Red Clay schools.

I agree. But in Red Clay the cat is out of the ba...

2010-03-09T08:39:20.470-05:00

I agree. But in Red Clay the cat is out of the bag, we have a huge amount of choice. Most of it is red clay kids choicing to other schools within the district. But other districts play a roll in all of this too.

I honestly would not know where to begin to fix this.